Happily Ever After: Myth? Dr Pauline Dillard says NO!
About Dr. Pauline Dillard
Dr. Pauline Dillard is the founder and counselor at Dunamas Marriages in Colorado Springs, CO. She has a doctorate degree from South Florida Bible College and Theological Seminary. She has helped hundreds of marriages become Christ-centered, heart-connected, and Spirit-filled, and has an 83% success rate. Before getting her doctorate she was a wife and mom. She and her husband have 3 adult children, 3 grandchildren, and 2 dogs. She currently lives in Colorado Springs with her husband, and her marriage counselling journey began with doing their own heart-connecting marriage intensive.
Watch the episode here
Listen to the podcast here
Introduction
Good, beautiful day, you beautiful, beautiful souls! This is Charla Anderson, host of the Charla Anderson show collector and connector of fascinating people, and everyone is fascinating, especially you, so grateful. You would join us today. But and you know I want to ask this question is happily ever after just a myth in fairy tales and movies. My guest today, Dr. Pauline Dillard, of dunamasmarriages.com says absolutely not, even great marriages are possible.
But wait. But 1st we’re going to do our little mini vacation a little 22 second breathing exercise. We’re going to breathe in some calm for 7 seconds. We’re going to hold for 4 seconds, and breathe out gratitude for 11 seconds. So here, join me, breathe in some calm for 7 seconds. Here we go.
Hold, relax, release. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Really grateful to have my special guest, Dr. Pauline Dillard, of you know she’s we met at Bree Bree talks right? Did we meet at BRI talks.
I think so. Yeah.
With Terri Lee Harrison.
Yes.
And she is speakers coach. She does all this amazing stuff. And so I’ve met some wonderful people through that group. And Dr. Pauline is just one of them, and I’m so excited to get to talk to her, because. You know, marriage isn’t the easiest thing on earth, and I’ve got a couple of T-shirts. So been there done that. So it’s you know. I wish I had maybe had some more some of this type of encouragement.
So, Dr. Pauline, give us a little bit. Tell me who you are in this world, and we’re going to talk about who you really are. And then we’re going to talk about what you do and how you serve our world.
Okay? Well, I’m Dr. Pauline Dillard, but I’m also a wife, I’m a mom, and I am an very committed follower of Christ. And when I talk about my conversion experience, I don’t talk about inviting him into my heart. I talk about giving my life to the Lord. So from that perspective, I always pursue him for where I’m supposed to go and what I’m supposed to be doing. And so my 1st career was wife and mom.
I did stay home with my children. I did some childbirth education during that time and birth assisting, but you know not so much. It interfered with my ability to really be there for my children. And then, as they got older, I felt God released me to go to graduate school. I had a bachelor’s degree in psychology from California State University Chico, where I had met my husband.
So then I did my graduate work through. I felt like, Oh, I’ll go to graduate school. This is awesome. I love education. I could be a student forever, but I have to follow what God has me doing. So I did my Master’s Degree and my doctorate degree through South Florida Bible College and Theological Seminary, having no clue what God was going to do with me. Actually, I really just loved the research. And I loved learning more and deeper about all that stuff. And then at 1 point, it was really funny, because one day I kind of go. and my husband goes. What did God just tell you to do?
And I said he just told me to be a counselor. and I had no designs on becoming a counselor, and he goes well, what did you think he was going to tell you to do? I said I had no clue. So while I was doing my graduate school, I got my master’s. I did start doing counseling, but I was working on my Phd. I had to do, probably. Oh, I don’t know 3 or 4 classes on marriage. And I literally did those read those textbooks this way. Okay, well, that’s never gonna work.
Nope, that’s never going to work, and I had been married over 20 years by that point. So you know, I had a sense of what was going on. And so I told God, and you know how it is. Just tell God something. I do not want to be a marriage counsellor. Do not have me do marriage counselling. It’s a whole lot of work for very little return. And up until, say, sometime in the 2000s, typically people had a 10 to 15% success rate doing marriage counselling. Yeah.
And counsellors were accepting that as the acceptable rate and and even people doing the counselling were accepting that. And really, we have found that 10 to 15% of those people who are struggling are just going to stay married anyway, whether they do counselling or not.
So God introduced me to this model, this method of counseling through a counselors group, this this guy spoke there of really understanding each other’s heart and learning heart language, and how to really care for people’s hearts, and how to really pray, and how important forgiveness was, and all of that stuff. And I just kind of asked my husband, would you just go to this? Not like we were on the verge of divorce, but you know you feel like.
There’s something here in the middle that I just can’t quite get to, and it just feels really empty. And it feels almost, you know, like there’s something. There’s got to be a way to get in there, and that’s what this guy was showing. And so my husband was like, sure we can go so. I will tell you, Charla. I was like terrified to go. I felt, oh, my God! I want to be so exposed! It’s very scary to come into this because it’s very deep, very fast. It’s an intensive it was, you know, 5 days for 3 hours a day. So my husband and I went to this, and we learned each other.
Was that, can I ask? Was it in person, in person? 5 days.
That was in person. But because of Covid, I’ve learned how to do Zoom also. People can actually do it from anywhere on Zoom. And I’ve learned how to, you know, manage the technology and manage. You know, the difficulties with doing it online. So people no longer even have to come in person, but I like it in person. I like the people sitting in front of me, but that was in person and back then.
Nobody was really doing a lot of these things online back in the early 2000s. So we’ve probably been married about 25 years when we did this.
And it was so phenomenal to be able to understand each other’s heart language, to learn how to daily care for each other’s hearts, to know how to let God into those areas. And really the forgiveness became so powerful, and my husband ran into our counselor out at a store or something one day, and he and the counselor said to my husband, does Pauline know that I do training? And my husband said, I don’t think so.
So keep in mind. My husband never commented on what I did and what God had me doing. He just trusted I was following what God led me to do, and he comes home and says to me. How can you know this and not do it? I was like, Oh, my gosh! That has to be from the Lord, so I guess I’m a marriage counselor.
So you never say you never say never right, never say.
Universally.
Yeah. Don’t say that I’m not gonna do that.
Right, and this is in 2007, 2008 I got my doctorate in 2008, and I went and trained, and you know I’ve developed some things that are my own, you know, because the other counsellor that did this he had been a pastor, and then he would do this marriage counselling. Well, now, I have a doctorate degree in psychology, so I’m able to bring in some elements that he doesn’t bring in. I also understand trauma because I did. One of my thesis was on trauma following Cesarean. So I understood Ptsd really well, and that sort of thing.
I bring those elements to what I do as well, you know, to help people to release it. And really, ultimately, at the end of it. Is the model. Method of forgiveness is like so open and so clear with the Lord, and it goes after one piece at a time.
So let me kind of, I guess, explain what I mean by that. So most of the time we say, oh, I choose to forgive my Dad for everything he did and then it doesn’t disconnect. And then, a month later, we’re still in pain, and we don’t understand why we’re in pain. So then somebody comes to the church, the special speaker, I call it, and he talks about forgiving, and if you want to be forgiving, come up to the altar. And pray, what I call the prayer. Okay?
So you go up, you pray the prayer, and you feel good for a while, maybe a few days, maybe a few weeks, if you’re lucky a few months, but pretty soon you start to realize you still have some pain and bitterness there. So what we have found is, and I really want to talk about this, because this is really one of the biggest issues in marriage is we’re bitter. We’re angry. We don’t know how to release it properly. We don’t know how to ask for forgiveness, and we don’t know how to really, truly give forgiveness in a way that can be really effective.
Can I ask you this? You’re talking about a lot about forgiveness, and do I mean. I’m not asking this for me, because I pretty much know the answer. But I feel like, you know, in a marriage. What is it about forgiveness? They’re just not doing what I want? They’re just not doing the way I you know, and and I believe I like the term preferences. They don’t do this. They squeeze the toothpaste wrong, and and then it builds up, you know little little things that but do people coming into counselling.
Say I need to forgive my husband for this, or, you know, are they recognizing that right up front because I wrote a forgiveness? Release? My niece wrote a power of forgiveness book and has a forgiveness academy. I know a lot more about it than probably most people do.
Right? Right? Well, a lot of them know that they have to forgive because well, people are people, and they do what I call stupid things, and then they make us mad. And then we have to forgive. And so it really is less about what they’re actually doing. And I mean. If somebody’s abusive, I will draw a line there, I will say like, if somebody’s being really especially physically abusive. I will be like you call the police immediately, you know.
I have a this is, I wrote a book. Candy bar hugs. It doesn’t take much to make a difference, but in there I have a little unforgiven, unconditional love, unconditional forgiveness, not unconditional boundaries. I mean you. You definitely have.
And people ask me all the time when it comes to like forgiving their parents or forgiving other people? Do. I have to have relationship with that person if I forgive them, and that no forgiveness and relationship are 2 different things it really is a matter of let’s break away from what I call family rules and do forgiveness work, and then see what God would have you do. What does Jesus want you to do?
Because we are supposed to honor our mother and father, and sometimes the best way to honor them is to back away from relationship for a season, you know, and really hear what God would have you to do and what people don’t realize in a marriage is, we’re never really fighting about what we’re fighting about.
We’re fighting about this emotional disrespect. I’ll show you some things here in a minute to help really clarify some of this. And so like you say, oh, they squeeze the toothpaste wrong? Is it really about toothpaste, or is it about not feeling heard, not feeling valued, not feeling respected? And oh, by the way, if you don’t want a problem with the toothpaste, too. Just have your own separate tube. and then you don’t have to worry about the toothpaste.
But the other thing is is, we always want the other person to change. and we’re always asking God to change the other person. But really we need to be saying, how do I change my own heart, too, towards that other person? Not that they shouldn’t care about you in a marriage we should really focus to care God designed marriage.
He designed marriage actually to be a safe place to land, because the world is so harsh. And so we’re supposed to be a safe place to land. We’re supposed to be a calm, quiet place to land, but when we get frustrated with our spouse, and we start praying for God to change them. Are we not really mad at God. I mean, aren’t we really mad at God because he won’t mind me and make that other person be the way I want them to be. And so people are always shocked when I say, Well, you need to say a forgiveness. Prayer for God.
Now, God doesn’t need our forgiveness. I know God doesn’t really need our forgiveness, but the enemy uses our bitterness to block our relationship with God. And so, when I show you the prayer that I use, you’ll see how that can tie in. And so people go. Forgive God I’m not mad at God, and I go. Well, okay, if you’re not, that’s fine. But let’s really just look at. Usually I’m just mad at him because he doesn’t mind me, that’s you know. And then I might have to say a prayer for him. So basically, what what we find in this is you have to identify a specific person who has done a specific thing, causing you a specific pain. And that’s what you want to release. And you choose to forgive. As you probably well know. we can choose not to. I don’t recommend it, but we often do choose not to, but forgiveness is always a choice, and so really it starts with that will I choose to forgive. So how do we get to that?
To where we can identify that? So what I’m going to do is share my screen for a minute and show you just a couple of the little tools I use to help people PIN this down. If that’s okay, that that’s awesome. And I then I want, because I want not only helping them.
I want to hear your story of. You know your overcoming as well. That’s a. And we so often we teach, we teach what we need to learn right? So.
Yeah, yeah. Sorry. I thought this was just on the single screen. Let me just pull out for just a moment, and then it’ll be. Make it a lot easier for me to show you what I’m trying to do here. Maybe I can do that. Maybe I can’t. I don’t.
Be sure to send the slides so that I can put them in the blog when the blog comes out in a couple of weeks.
I just thought I thought I had it set up so you wouldn’t have to see all of them at one time.
Well, if it’s Zoom, it’s gonna change. When you just when you think you can hang on.
That’s cool. I think you’ve got it all figured out. Okay, well, the first, st this is the 1st slide. This is the 1st tool I give to people. And really, what we’re looking at is, how do you get stuck? How do we get caught up? And I call it a web of pain. So what I have is both parties do this, this outside circle. Here is an emotional pain, words, this one.
This is what we call pressure patterns or pressure pain, like if somebody does it to you or around you, even to other people, does it bother you? And then we have abuse pain. Now, we also have, like our spiritual areas that we can get off in here. There’s 6 of them. And this is what most people focus on in the church. Just don’t be. Don’t be bitter. Don’t be hypocritical, don’t you know you got to just change that and grow, and these are the areas that the enemy uses to that are listed in Scripture. But they’re also the areas the enemy likes to really come into. So what I do is I have people identify, you know? Have you ever felt this, or whatever? And then how might I react? Or how have I reacted spiritually? So when they’re done? It looks something like that.
So I want to just remind you that this is live TV. And so make sure you explain it because most listeners will be in podcast at the in the future.
You’re gonna circle. Whatever emotional pain words there are or like here, or you’re going to your pressure patterns or your abuse pain. And I’m just gonna go back for a minute because I can’t really see through all that myself. So what we end up with is the 6 areas that the enemy is attacking you on is your rebellion or defiance.
Hypocrisy, or like pretending sexual behavior outside of marriage before marriage in marriage occult practices or drug use bitterness and under bitterness is anger and unforgiveness. And that’s this one. I have the wrong thing there, because that one is supposed to be pride. And then we have turning to other things which is like, watching TV, playing video games, shopping things to avoid dealing with your emotions that are not going to God.
If that makes sense. Okay? So then it kind of ends up looking like this with all these lines and arrows going to what you do in your spiritual behaviors. So what happens in the church? Charlie, is, most people use the Bible as a lawn mower here because we’re having this misbehavior. We’ve got all this ugly hanging out, and so they use it to kind of like. Just behave better kind of cut that off, and then we don’t see the ugly, but anytime your heart gets bumped.it comes out, and we can’t figure out.
Why do I keep doing the same things? The things I don’t want to do. and it’s because the enemy, the Bible says that the enemy is looking for whom to sling his fiery darts at. and to me that means these arrows go straight into our heart, and then these hooks come out and they grab our heart. So we cut this off. We cut off the ugly hanging out. But there’s still these hooks inside.
And we want to unhook those. and the way to unhook those is through forgiveness that actually unhooks it. But we have to unhook the pane. and so, too often we do sort of a surface forgiveness of oh, I choose to forgive. but we’re not really. What am I forgiving? What am I unhooking? What am I dealing with? And so to find that out? And this I have a little free. little free workbook on my website about the web of pain.
People can actually download this and they can go through it together. And when you get 2 of them. I have the couples put them together, you know, and look through the light at it, and that’s how they’re trying to have marriage. and you come into marriage with this most people.
The marital partner did not create it. It was already there. But what are we really good at in marriage bumping up against pain. and the longer we live together we can get pretty good at grinding our heel into it, too. So any word that’s been circled on. Here is what I call a pain button.
Are you talking about?
On the web of pain, the like emotional pain, words. the pressure pattern words, and the abuse pain. So when my spouse is reacting rebelliously or with anger. Things like that. I just hit something. I just hit something that maybe I didn’t even create. But it’s there. So when we’re fighting over the tube of toothpaste and the disrespect. It may be that the anger is bigger than the situation today, because there’s all this pain behind it pressing into it, and you just stepped all over it. And so you think, why is this person reacting so big to such a.
Straw that broke the camel’s back, or it’s been built. It’s been there all along. And finally, it’s like they’re doing this to me. They’re doing this to.
Right. They’re just doing what they’re doing, and they’re hitting the pain button now. I’ve gotten permission from my husband to tell our stuff. Because I said, You know, I have to tell our stuff. If I’m gonna be able to really help people to understand this. And this is gonna sound.
So come on. If you’re gonna talk about your stuff right now, why don’t you come on screen for
Yes, that’s fine. Okay, so it’s a really silly thing. But in retrospect, but at the time when I was at home, being a housewife and a mom, and doing all this stuff. My husband had this really bad habit of dropping like his underwear, right in front of the laundry hamper. Not in it, right in front of it. Okay? So then, when I would go by, I’d just be like, Oh, my God, you know he does this on purpose. He does this to just frustrate me. He does this, you know, and I had all these reasons why he did it. That had to do with offending me.
You made up stories about it.
In my, in my brain. It was the disrespect. It’s like he doesn’t care how hard I work. He doesn’t, you know. I just came up with all kinds, and I could come up with a lot of little things that like that that you know, he comes up with. But if I were to ask him he would have to him a logical reason for doing it. Okay, but I would just be mad. And, oh, my God, I can’t believe you disrespect me. Now, this sounds really silly, because I said earlier, I have to have a specific person, a specific thing in specific pain words. So in this instance it’s my husband.
It’s dropping his underwear in front of the laundry hamper instead of just putting it in the laundry hamper, causing me to feel disrespected, discounted, not valued time, not valued those kinds of things.
So that’s the 1st part is, I have to identify what the problem is now the second part of the prayer I use with people. a lot of times. People don’t really understand it, and they struggle with this piece. But the second part is, I’m willing to pay for the emotional pain and consequence my husband caused me. I know why. Well, people go well. Yes, Jesus paid for our sins, but he also told us to do greater things than he did. He also.
14-12, my favorite, because, do what Jesus did, and even more. And this is about religion. This is about relationships.
Absolutely. And also, if so, let’s say my husband doing that is not just triggering from him. but that I had a sibling who always broke my stuff or wouldn’t put my things away, and I felt disrespected and disregarded and discounted. And now it’s bringing all of that into play, too. So I also have to choose to forgive my sibling for messing with my stuff, causing me to feel all those same things, and I have to choose to pay, because sin has to be paid for.
We know that that’s why Jesus went to the cross. But if that Sibling walked in and said to me, here’s $10,000. Don’t ever feel bad about me breaking your toys ever again. Do you think all my pain is? Gonna go away.
No. But thank you. Yeah.
Take it. Usually it’s parents that people want to get that from. But but the 1st part I am taking ownership of the fact that I have that pain. Does that make sense like I choose to forgive this person for this thing, making me feel this way. I have it. The second part. I’m paying for it because I have to pay for what’s mine. I can’t give to Jesus anything that’s not mine.
So you know I could say to you, Charla, I’m just going to give Jesus that book behind you. and Jesus is going to say to me, no, you’re not. It’s not your book.You can’t do that. But if I said to you, Charla, can I pay you for that book? And then can I have it? And you go. Yes, and we negotiate a price. Now I can give it to Jesus.
I can do whatever I want with it. I’ve owned it. I’ve paid for it. I have it. What do I want to do with it now? I’m choosing to give it to Jesus. So this is where Jesus. I take back the ground or no. Sorry. I’m sorry I misspoke Jesus. Take back the ground I gave to the enemy through my bitterness, and I yield it to his control.
So when we do it that way, we’re acknowledging it. We’re disconnecting the pain. We’re giving it to the Lord. And now we’re also blocking the enemy from being able to use our bitterness against us, against our marriage and against our relationships. And yeah, I had a client one time he kept saying. Lord, take back the ground the enemy stole from me. I’m like, Stop! Okay.
He can’t steal it from us unless we’ve given him legal permission to come in, and we do that by our own bitterness we give it to him. So now I’ve got all this bitterness from my past that I bring with me, which is what that web of pain is all about.
My husband has his, and now we’re trying to have a marriage. and now we’re stepping all over it, so I would take.
Everything, personally.
We do, especially if we’ve got that pain. And I’m just gonna tell you I don’t care how much of it you have if it gets hit, it’s gonna fire off. But once I start to really, deeply forgive. Now I say those prayers. It’s not gonna disconnect the 1st time I say it for all of it. Some will, some won’t. so you have to pray it every day until it disconnects. I can’t tell you how long that’s going to take.
But I will talk about like you know what I had to overcome when I learned this prayer, and this was way back, you know in the like, I said, like 2007, 2008. I had had some very severe trauma from church, from a borderline cultic church.
very severe. I did not trust pastors. I did not like Christians. I still went to church because the Bible says, do not forsake the gathering together of the saints. Now the pastors and the Christians that I was with at that time they didn’t know but they would hit and bump up against this pain, and I knew intellectually. Okay, they’re not really trying to hit it.
They’re not really intentionally trying to go after me. Blah blah. Well, I live at the top of a hill, and when I come to my office I come down that big hill, and there’s a church right at the bottom.
So every day when I would crest that hill. The church would remind me to start praying. and I prayed this prayer for pastors, for specific people, for congregations in general, for churches. And I’ll tell you, Charla, I did that every day for 2 weeks, and then, after 2 weeks, I came over the crest, I opened my mouth because you have to pray out loud. I believe I believe the enemy can’t read our mind based on Jesus. Example, in John, chapter 4, where he speaks out loud.
And so I start to pray. And all of a sudden I realize none of that bothers me anymore. And it was just daily praying, forgiveness, praying, forgiveness. There’s so many things with my husband, you know, I still have to deal with. Yeah, cause you live with people, and they, you know. But love love him to death. He’s been an amazing provider. We’ve been married 42 years now, coming up on 43 in May and we’ve gone through all this together and
you know we still have our moments, and he can still hit a pain button once in a while, and you know I’m really working hard on not overreacting to that. But I’m not going to say I’m 100, because we’re human beings. And then I have to just go back, and, you know, repray it. But with the church stuff I just said.
This underwear in the basket, now.
He does put his underwear in the basket, but he hangs his work, shirts over the side, and.
I’m sure there was something in his. His mom probably had some little something, anyway.
No, I asked him, why do you hang this stuff? I just walk by, and you know, tip it in because there’s no personal. There’s no.
Doing it against, you. See, that’s.
No, he’s not.
So many I feel like. When I came up with this I was a little teenager with his her. She’s having to move because her. Daddy’s getting remarried, and how you know all this. And she was all upset, and I said. I just want you to consider that I don’t think he’s doing it against you. He’s doing it for him, thinking that it’s going to bless you. So sometimes we get backwards on our. It’s all about me, right. So take everything personally. and we make assumptions.
My favorite book is the 4 agreements that I recommend, because, you know, it’s making. We all take things personally and make assumptions, and our world would be so much less dramatic had we, if we would learn to.
Well, it it’s really funny, because after I released myself from the churches and stuff, I was talking to a lady at church, and she happened to be the pastor, secretary. We were friends, and this pastor walked up. and he like interfered in our conversation, and he’s like, Oh, what am I supposed to do with her? And I just said I don’t know. Maybe you could just care for her heart. And he literally turned on his heels and walked away from me.
And I just went back to my conversation because I didn’t. At this point I’m not taking these things personally anymore, because I’ve learned how to forgive, and she goes, hey, wait a minute. He just walked away from you, and I said, Yeah, I know I saw it. And then I went back to my conversation, and she goes. But he just walked away from you, and I said, Yes, I know I saw it. She goes. He turned his back and he walked, and she was.
Couldn’t handle your truth.
No, and I said. I know I saw it, and she goes well. Didn’t that bother you? And I said, No, it did not bother me. And here’s why, because that was more about his pain buttons than it was about what he said to me. and that’s you know. Once I learned that I was able to use that quite frequently when people misbehave. Now, you know, I can’t do it with, you know, 100% with everybody, because there’s just some people who are too deep into your heart, and they just. you know, keep digging and like you said with dads leaving and all that.
I was that little girl whose dad left and didn’t see the pain he was causing. Yeah, and just was doing what he wanted to do. And it just got so bad I couldn’t really even talk to him without just being in severe pain as an adult. And it was really funny, because my sister said one time, yeah, Dad always wondered what to do with you, and I didn’t think of it at the time, Charla, but later I thought
you know what he needed to do. He needed to say, I’m sorry, but now, when you do this forgiveness prayer, it doesn’t matter whether they say I’m sorry or not. and once I was able to really forgive him and release him. I’m able to like. Also remember the fun things he did when I was little, and you know how he was as kind of a daddy when I was a little girl, and I’m not mad anymore. And I’m you know he did die. He died from Lou Gehrig’s disease. But you know, after that, after learning how to forgive.
And so you you keep referring to the Re. This forgiveness prayer. Is it more than just those 2 sentences?
A little bit of a structured prayer here. I’m going to go back to the sharing, so I can show you, because I have it on here.
what I have people do, and this is just a partial list. Here is identify emotional pain words. I have this whole long list, and it’s just like Circle anything you’ve ever felt. because because we use a lot of I’m sad. I’m mad. I’m upset. I’m angry, and those are really just surface words. Our pain is really about something else. And then, after they circle that I go to this, and I’ve got 6 boxes or 6 more. Another one is like pressure to perform.
One says, not love, not valued, put down, and then there’s 3 more that are pressured to perform a blame, shame, core, and then abuse paid or taken advantage of in some form. And so this helps us identify. Who are those people? You know? I’ve got the emotion there’s there’s 2 ways you can come into it. One is, I know I have the emotional pain.
This is the person who caused me to feel that way, so I have them put down. People who basically made them feel, not loved, basically made them feel not valued like their mom, their dad. Here they have sister. Their spouse could do it. We could have God. We could feel like God did it to us. We could feel like we’ve done it to ourselves, and this helps us to go. Oh, they made me feel this way.
What did they do that caused me to feel this way, and then you start making a list like, you know, my dad and the list might be abandoned me, and then or left me left Mom, or or never came to visit. When, after he left. Kind of thing. And then what are the emotional pain? Words? And you just pick 4 or 5. Whatever emotional pain words there are. Now, then you come to this forgiveness prayer at the bottom. I just put this up here for an example.
This is that prayer I just said, Lord, I choose to forgive my dad for leaving the family, causing me to feel abandoned, not loved, not cared for, not valued. Whatever I’m willing to pay for the emotional pain and consequences my dad caused me in this instance. and Jesus take back the ground I gave to the enemy through my bitterness, and I yield that ground to your control, and those are.
That’s very that. So really, it’s it’s it’s straightforward. But I believe people that are not in the religious world, so to speak that’s does a lot of challenging words in in some ways are are.
They’re challenging words. And, Charla, I have spoken about. you know, healing from trauma and things like that, and post trauma growth in like junior colleges and settings that were not Christian settings. And really, I just basically let people know. This is how I would approach it. Now, you can take this.
Change it, however you want, but personally for me, I don’t see how it works without the Lord. But other people, you know, once they own it. Once they pay for it, they can do really whatever they want with it. And this is just this is what I would do. and this is what I do do. Does that make sense?
You know, 10 years from now somebody’s listening to this, they may, you know, on on the podcast. May not
Right, and so you know. I will tell you also, Charla. My sister’s not a Christian, but I’ve walked her through some of this, and she’s adapted it and gotten a huge amount of freedom. With how she’s able to use it. And you know, I just talked to her a lot about. You know, this is, you have to choose to forgive. You have to identify what it’s done, and.
And it’s all choice. And that’s something you said ago. I remember telling some some kids that you know it’s like nobody can hurt your feelings without your permission. Nobody can make you angry without your permission. Nobody, you know you can. You can choose to, you know, to deflect that as well.
And then in my candy bar hugs. It doesn’t take much to make a difference. This tiny little book, big Messages to my children. I have what I called a forgiveness release. And it’s like I did what I did. I didn’t do what I didn’t do.
So right. And I’ll talk about that, too, in just a minute. I just these things are also in my workbook, which is available.
Right. So I have a Pdf. On this right now, and it’s getting ready to come out through Lulu. If somebody wants like a print and ship hard copy. It’ll be out pretty soon, so that that is all.
It’s called blueprints for a thriving marriage tools and strategies for Christ centered lasting relationship by Pauline, Dr. Pauline Dillard, Phd. So, having to kind of look around my camera here, but.
Sorry I know. Find what you’re looking for. I’m gonna I’m gonna turn this off again because I didn’t put it up there. But you’re right. You also have to choose to ask for forgiveness. Now we have a tendency to go. I’m sorry. Okay. well, no, it’s not okay. I’m sorry clouds just came over. I have all my windows open, and I can see now it’s a little bit darker, and I forgot my light ring, so I’m kind of snow. We have cold. So as long as it’s okay for you.
we have to. We do that all the time, and then we have this. Well, you’re a Christian, you have to forgive me. Well, no, I don’t. I mean, that’s between me and God at that point. But yet we also should take responsibility for what we have done that has damaged other people’s hearts.
And so it’s. It’s very easy, too, but it’s like I was wrong for, and you have to name something specific. You did. Now, as a parent, I know sometimes we’re not wrong like. No, I’m not going to let you go. Spend the night at your friend’s house, whose parents are drug dealers. That’s you know, but I have to do it.
and so you may, but they get really angry, and their heart gets bitter. And so you might say, I’m sorry that I had to. So you either say I was wrong for, or I’m sorry that I had to, depending on the situation. and you put in a specific causing you to feel. Now I’m going to try to put myself in your place. I’m going to acknowledge the pain it caused you, and I might say causing you to feel left out or angry, or that I don’t listen to you, or whatever it might be. the person might go. No, that’s not it.
Okay. Can you help me to know what it is because if I can connect my behavior to how it hurts somebody else’s heart, they have a much better sense that you get it. And remember, Jesus said, that don’t call your brother Raqah, which is basically call them names, or damage their heart, because you might as well be thrown in the lake and drowned because
you’ve killed their hearts. I’m paraphrasing. But basically in Matthew, I think it’s 7. I’m terrible at addresses. But anyway, so we’ve done this now, once I’ve identified that I want the other person looking me in the eye, especially for this part. Look at me. I make them look in the eye, because the heart’s in the eye. Will you choose to forgive me now? It’s in their court now that’s not getting off easy, because for me to you know how hard it is for us to acknowledge our side of the street like you just said telling your kids I You know I did this. I’m sorry I did the best, you know. I do feel.
But I knew I did what I did. I didn’t do what I didn’t do. I did all that I knew to do with what I knew at the time, just like.
Correct.
Doing in your life right now. I love you, and that’s.
But you know, I did this with my kids identifying specific things after I’d already forgiven myself because you can’t go into that conversation upset and hurt with yourself. And oh, I’m a terrible mom. And all this you have to be solid and strong and ready for it, and exactly what you said. I know I did the very best that I could with what I had at the time, but it wasn’t the best for that child.
And so it’s okay for me to say either I was wrong for not recognizing it, or I’m sorry that I had to do this, and I went to. I have 3 sons. They’re all adults. And at the time I did go to each one of them, one at a time. and did this, I was wrong, for your dad and I were wrong for not knowing how to really love each other the way you needed us to love each other at that time. And all this, and they’re also different.
You know, it’s funny because my oldest son kept going. No, mom, it’s okay. It’s okay. It’s okay. And I’m like, no, it wasn’t okay. And look at me. I’m fine. Let’s talk about it. And then he was able to, you know, release and all of that my youngest one wanted to have a 2 and a half hour conversation where I’m going. Okay.
I didn’t sign up for this, but you do it because you love them, and you want to make sure that they know that. Yes, you’ve changed. Now you understand. Now you’re listening.
And now they’re heard, see that heard, and and often for what I am not able to speak right so.
But he’s also my talker, and we’ll go into deeper conversations. Our middle son, who was so funny because he was like. Okay, but you know I had a great childhood. I lived my childhood, and we’re like all right. So you know, each one of them experiences you differently, and each one of them affects you differently when they’re born. Their personalities affect you as much as you do them.
And so it’s very interesting to see. And then, with my husband and I. We learned how to sit down on a daily basis for about 30 min a day, and really connect to care for each other’s hearts. What I have people do is I have them do a prayer in the counseling that I kind of lead them through to connect to Jesus to find out. What does their heart look like with all this damage?
And how do they protect their hearts and people? Give me some amazing descriptions of what they do to protect their hearts. Some of them put them in a cement safe. and then I have to start asking them, are there any doors or windows. Is there a top on that? If you know, like, you say, it’s the woman, and I always talk about little boys and little girls, because that’s where our heart is. We get to the heart really quickly. And Jesus said, Come to me as a child, so we want to address that.
but I’ll ask him things like well, if there’s no doors or windows or locks. If a little boy got a shovel, could he dig down underneath it to get to your heart and care for it. But really it is the sitting and being heard, as you just said. that I was hurt, and asking forgiveness when you’ve really hurt the other person and giving forgiveness when they’ve hurt you. That opens all of that up. And after they come to me. I just tell them I’m going to give you all the tools you need to do this.
I’m gonna teach you how to use those tools. And then I am not going home with you. So you have to decide what you’re gonna do with it. Now, if you do it for about 2 months, it often can, on average, about 2 months. Those hearts will heal, they’ll start to heal.
And there’s so many things now that I was just thinking about, even when I think about doing a podcast and the overcoming piece that used to just throw my entire day. I mean, just. oh, my God, how could they do that to me, and I can’t even think. And I can’t even get anything done now, because I can’t think that I just kind of go. Okay. Well, it wasn’t nice, but you know I just choose to forgive them and pay for it and move on.
Why do we continue? Yeah, so often we continue dwelling and retelling and retelling a million times the same old story. The reason and what that is doing is cementing it into the stuff you don’t want right instead of the possibilities of moving forward. Because I you know, I’m a mindset coach, I mean I that’s everything I know is we have opportunities to receive.
So this I didn’t put up by here, but I’m going to try to explain it, because I think it fits here very perfectly. This is something that the Lord showed me when I was studying trauma. And so what happens is we have a traumatic event or a trigger, something that reminds us of that traumatic event.
and our hormones will shoot up really high our stress hormones. And that’ll be adrenalines, norepinephrines. All of that we have to remember, we’re body, mind and spirit, and all of parts of us are impacted. So this is a physical piece. They shoot up really high while they’re up high. We are having thoughts and beliefs about what’s happening to us.
So now, our physiology actually creates a rut in the system. So anytime those hormones shoot up high. They literally create those thoughts and beliefs.
Okay. So when we want to come down, and I have this whole drawing of it, when we want to calm down, we look for something to calm that system down. Now God has actually created a system inside of us that produces an opioid like compound inside our own system to calm us down. But it’s either broken.
It’s been, you know. Everything’s gone to entropy since Adam and Eve, and so it’s or the trauma was so great it broke that system so we could look at something like 9, 11. Everybody was traumatized. But 3 months later some people were back to work. They were getting life back in order. And yet we know even this many years later. There’s some people who’ve never overcome it.
So that’s why opioids work. That’s why we have an opioid crisis in the United States, too. So people look for something to help them, and that’s where they stumble. I call stumble across their thing in quotes, and it could be drinking. It could be drugs, it could be cutting. It could be shopping. It could be video games because they it kicks this system in, and they calm down.
So from the time the system kicks in until they calm down or they calm down until it comes back down. Then they go into depression, anxiety. They don’t like that. So they might recreate something actually to get into the drug system. It’s actually a drug cycle.
And you wonder why a drug addict starts a fight with you so they can leave the house and blame you is because they want to go hook up with their drug. And that’s really what we’re doing here with this system. So you’re wondering why is this happening?
This is why it’s happening. And so then the person does something and their spouse is going. Why are you shopping again? What’s going on? And then they’re stressed and depressed and in bed the next day, because it hits them. Now, can you retrain the system? Yes, you can. Okay. Forgiveness.
There’s the good news, because everything I talk about I wanna have hope right. And we don’t have much longer here. So we gotta get some.
Okay, I’m gonna go really quick.
Here, and I want to wait but for you. But wait Dr. Pauline Dillard, P A U L I N E D I L L A R D. With dunamasmarriages.com, and that’s D U N A M AS M A R R I A G E S . C O M the reason so many people will listen instead of watch. And so we want to make sure we get it clear and get it in there before the end of the show, and you know I’m grateful for the just, you know, for you to be here and get these last words in. And dunamas means. What? How did you come up with that?
It’s a spirit filled.
Yes, I pray. And the Lord. said dunamas, because it does take the Holy Spirit active in our lives too to accomplish all this. So on this trauma cycle, you want to approach it physically. Am I getting the right nutrition? You’ve got that going on back there? Because if the neurotransmitters are all lipoproteins, and if that balance is off.
you’re not producing the right lipoproteins. You do not have a Prozac deficiency. Most likely you just need to rebuild the system itself. I could go into that whole thing sometime about how the brain does that. But then, so eating well is a big part of it. Forgiveness helps you to change the story. What you believe
is what you know you were mentioning that, and it also helps me change my thoughts. Now I’m going to tell you. Having gone through clinical depression for 5 years, and learning this forgiveness, prayer, this forgiveness, prayer, changed my mind and healed my mind more than anything any other counseling has ever done for me. So that’s why I’m so passionate about it.
And so I changed my nutrition. I did my exercise. I did the forgiveness work, and I confront automatic negative thinking. We call them ants. And so when that trigger hits, you get that automatic negative thinking, it’s automatic. That’s why we call it automatic. And then people say. Why do you want to think like that? And I always go? I don’t know, because it’s so much fun, I mean. Who wants to think like that? Who wants to be stuck in that? And so through.
Get comfortable in that pattern. I mean, it may not be what they don’t like it, but they might become. They are probably comfortable there.
It’s what they know, but they’re not usually comfortable if that makes sense. And so.
But that’s I mean, that’s what they know is what they’re familiar with is probably more what I.
More terrified of what the different might be than they are of where they are, even though it’s so uncomfortable. And it’s really interesting, because I do have to talk to them about you need to confront it. You need to say, well, I’m not happy here. Why don’t I give myself a chance to try something else. And so through the automatic negative thinking pieces, you know, I’m going to be really, really honest here, Charla, with your audience, that sometimes I still have those thoughts come in because the enemy wants to trigger it, or my systems get triggered or ate too much sugar, or whatever it was, but I don’t let them control what I choose to do for the day.
I do speak back to it that those are the lies that I have believed. but they’re not the truth today, even though they’re both there. You know I’ve got Jesus there, and I’ve got the enemy. It’s sort of you know that little angel devil thing going on, but it does not have to control what you choose to do with it, and that used to make me super mad when I was stuck in the automatic thinking. Well, you choose to think that way. You know you don’t understand how I can’t help it, but I do understand now
how to help it, but it took really being honest with the bitterness. and how I was stuck in the bitterness, and that that’s what was triggering my anger with other people. They weren’t necessarily intentionally trying to hurt me, even though their actions did hurt me so I had to change some of my thinking, I had to let Jesus come in and really pursue that forgiveness, no matter how long it took, and I had to pay attention to my body. And so those 3 elements are so important together.
Well, this is, you know, fascinating to me. I you know, mindset and relationships I have. I don’t think it was original. But there’s a cute little, a cute little way of handling marriage, and my upsets, you know, and that would be. And I sometimes give this as a wedding gift, a little stuffed animal of an elephant. And you know so often, when in a relationship, somebody’s coming in and saying.
you know you did this, and you know, all of a sudden they come home from work. They’re just doing what they do, and you’ve been building up all day is something you want to talk about. And what if you put this little elephant on the bed or in the coffee table? Whatever is the right place for you, so that you both know there’s something to be discussed without having to say it. And it’s just kind of a comical or a silly little simple thing, so that you can actually work towards having a communication rather than a fight. And so.
You know, when I’m when I see your little girl and you see mine, and we understand the damage they carry, and I care about that. Then I also don’t want to do anything that’s going to damage that little boy or that little girl, and so I tend to approach it more gently, more kindly.
And that’s what you your whole thing is about the heart right? How learning to love the heart! Speak just one quick minute the last words you want to talk about, because we’ve got just a couple minutes before time to go. And so what is your last. That’s where you. Want to get everybody to know, and how they really, how they you have a free gift, and all those things you want to.
Oh, okay. So what I want to do is help. People have marriages that honor God. So they’re Christ centered, heart connecting and spirit filled, and I do offer like a 1 h appointment, where you can kind of talk about what’s going on and what you want to accomplish, and what that could look like for you. And I do also offer that workbook the free workbook that has the web of pain in it. And I’m going to do the share again, just because,
I can have a QR code. If anybody’s on video, they can do the QR code and get those free things there, or the dunamasmarriages.com. You can go there and go to products like dunamasmarriages.com slash products, and the free things will pop up there as well. And so that way you can find out and meet with me and get some ideas before you commit to. You know, a full intensive
because a lot of times people are like, Oh, I don’t know but you’re not necessarily going to be doing an intensive because your marriage is falling apart because you which it could be. But and I’ve seeing those, or you could be doing it just because that space I just want to be more intimate with my spouse. I just want to get into that place we’ve never gotten to. And I have an 83% success rate.
That’s massive. I know that’s massive, you said in the very beginning there’s a 15 to 20% success rate with marriage counseling. And I think I’m grateful to know that there is something out there that does
and is more effective, and that when we learn to love, this is one of the ways. I say it. You know people don’t love themselves enough to know how to learn to love others. We’ve got the heart shaped. God shaped hole in our hearts, and we don’t understand how to love others, because we don’t know how to love ourselves.
And I think that you have something here that is directed for marriages, good or bad, or ugly marriages. The fairy tale, the happily ever after is possible. Right? So it doesn’t. I mean, it’s perfect, doesn’t mean you don’t have to work still, but it’s not perfect.
We’re not not looking for perfection. We’re looking for progress and love. And so I’ve got to shut her down. Thank you so much for being my guest today. I’m so happy that yeah.
Having me.
Connect.
I just love sharing it.
Well, I can tell that. Well, blessings and everybody always remember to choose joy.
Important Links
- Website: www.DunamasMarriages.com
- Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/dunamasmarriages
- LinkedIn- https://www.linkedin.com/in/paulinedillard/
- Blue Prints for a Thriving Marriage: https://dunamasmarriages.com/products/Blueprints-for-A-Thriving-Marriage-p616944449
- Free marriage tool: Web of pain : https://dunamasmarriages.com/products/Web-of-Pain-Free-Tool-p640972381
Connect with Charla Anderson:
For more insights and to follow Charla’s creative journey, check out her website and her other projects:
- Website: CharlaAnderson.com
- YouTube: Check out her channel for beginner art tips, life wisdom, and more!
- Win Win Women: Catch her on winwinwomen.tv to watch her shows and learn more.
About Dr. Pauline Dillard
Dr. Pauline Dillard is the founder and counselor at Dunamas Marriages in Colorado Springs CO. She has a doctorate degree from South Florida Bible College and Theological Seminary. She has helped hundreds of marriages become Christ-centered, heart-connected, and Spirit-filled, and has an 83% success rate. Before getting her doctorate she was a wife and mom. She and her husband have 3 adult children, 3 grandchildren, and 2 dogs. She currently lives in Colorado Springs with her husband, and her marriage counseling journey began with doing their own heart-connecting marriage intensive.
—
I’m Charla Anderson, host of The Charla Anderson Show, Collector & Connector of Fascinating People (and EVERYONE is Fascinating!) on live TV, streaming and podcasts.
As a Ziglar Legacy Certified Trainer, a retired award-winning flight attendant, Olympic Torch bearer, personal development junkie, Inspired Speaker, Published Author and Your Courageous Coach, I want to share my passion of living life full-out, saying YES to intriguing opportunities, and encouraging YOU to do the same. Let’s jump on a discovery call and get to know each other. Find all things Charla at CharlaAnderson.com/links.
On The Charla Anderson Show, We discuss Mindset, How much Your WORDS matter, Princess to Queen energy, mantras, HOPE, Faith, Miracles, Overcoming, and much, much more, including learning from amazing guests.
Everything Charla: https://CharlaAnderson.com/links/
Live show every Wed at 1 pm CT.
https://WinWinWomen.tv/show/the-charla-anderson-showThe WATCH Button turns green at 12:58 to join the live show. Also streamed on Roku, Amazon Fire, and Apple TV.
All replays are on my website, https://CharlaAnderson.com/tv-shows/
Become YOUR OWN Show Host: https://WinWinWomen.com/ref/Charla
Build your own website with amazing support: https://CoursePlatformAcademy.com/cpacharla/
Nutrition, Energy, Health, Vitality, Focus, Collagen, Brain Health: https://www.Zurvita.com/charla/en/us/
CBD: https://www.ZBlendsHemp.com/charla/en/us/
Charla@CharlaAnderson.com
NOTE: Some links may provide a small Commission to Charla Anderson, if purchased.
